Nāsṭika Ṣaiva Vachana Khanḍana. (Part 1)
Hare Krishna
All Glories To Sri Guru And Sri Gauranga!
I pay my most respectful obeisances to Jagadguru Madhvacharya.
In order to gain unflinching devotion in the feet of Hari which are blemish-free in character, one should at once remember Shri Anandatirtha!
The lingayats don't believe in heaven and hell, source
Let us learn what heaven or hell means for a vaidika,
Lord Kapila continued: My dear mother, it is sometimes said that we experience hell or heaven on this planet, for hellish punishments are sometimes visible on this planet also.(SB 3.30.29)
A Vaisnava is addressed as maha-bhaga, which means “fortunate.” One who becomes a
Vaisnava and is God conscious is understood to be greatly fortunate. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu , the chief exponent of Krsna consciousness in this age, has explained that the living entities in various planetary systems all over the universe are rotating in different species of life. A living entity can go wherever he likes—to heaven or to hell—simply by preparing himself for either place. There are many heavenly planets, many hellish planets, and many species of life. Padma Purana estimates the species of life to be 8,400,000, and the living entity is rotating or wandering through these species and creating bodies according to his mentality in his present life. “As you sow, so shall you reap,” is the law that governs here.
Now let us see the shortcomings of not having heaven and hell.
How are the sinful or the one's who commit offenses punished, is he simply forgiven by their false god? What about those, who are his devotees and commit an offense, will he just forgive them, then what is the difference between the one's who believe and the one's who don't. or, Why is there always a tendency in humans, to commit sin, Let us assume a man committed an offense, then the person was caught and the victim went the to court, but when he got there he just told the judge that he should be merciful and drop the charges.
nāsti paralokastatsādhanamadṛṣṭaṃ tatsākṣīśvaro vā iti matirasya thān
(Śiśupālavadha 16:7)
An atheist, unbeliever, one who denies the authority of the Vedas and a future life or the existence of a Supreme Ruler or Creator of the Universe.
योऽवमन्येत ते मूले हेतुशास्त्राश्रयाद्द्विजः ।
स साधुभिर्बहिष्कार्यो नास्तिको वेदनिन्दकः
(Manusmriti 2 :11)
Whoever insults the Vedas and the scriptures which are compatible with the vedas, that veda-nindaka' Nastika (atheist) should be excommunicated from Varna and Country.
धर्मं जिज्ञासमानानां प्रमाणं परमं श्रुतिः |
द्वितायं धर्मशास्त्राणि तृतीयं लोकसंग्रहः ||
(Mahabharat 14:1 10:42 )
The Shrutis (Vedas) are the most supreme authority for all those who inquire about religion. The second authority is Dharmashastra of Various Maharishis and the third is the collection of Lok Sangraha of various intellectuals.
Sutra in Nyaya Darshana of Maharshi Gautam which claim that Vedas are the superior proof -
तत्पामाण्यमाप्तप्रामाण्यात्।"
(न्याय दर्शन 2:1:67)
The Vedas proved to be the supreme proof of Shastras by being the word of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Kanada Muni claim in their Vaisheshika Shastra that Vedas are most authentic as they're directed directly by Supreme God -
तद् वचनादाम्नायस्य प्रामाण्यम्।
(Vaishesika Darshana 1:1:3)
Being the word of God, the authenticity of Amnaya i.e. Vedas has been rendered.
Kapila Mani also accept Vedas as supreme authority-
निजशक्त्यभिव्यक्तेः स्वतःप्रामाण्यम्।।
(Shankhya Darshana 5:51)
न पौरुषेयत्वं तत्कर्तुः पुरुषस्याभावात्
(Shankhya Dharshana 5:56)
The Vedas are considered to be self-evident . Because of their manifestation (manifested) by the power of Apaurusheya, by the personal power of jagad isvara.
अर्थकामेष्वसक्तानां धर्मज्ञानं विधीयते ।
धर्मं जिज्ञासमानानां प्रमाणं परमं श्रुतिः ॥ १३ ॥
(Manusmriti 2:13)
The knowledge of Dharma is ordained for those who are not addicted to the pursuit of wealth and pleasures; and for those seeking for the knowledge of Dharma, the Revealed Word is the highest authority Shruti (Vedas).
नास्ति वेदात् परं शास्त्रम्।
(Atri Smriti Verse 151)
There is no scripture greater than the Vedas.
श्रुतिस्मृतिपुराणानां विरोधो यत्र दृश्यते।
तत्र श्रौतं प्रमाणन्तु तयोद्वैधे स्मृतिर्त्वरा
(Vyasha Smriti 1:4)
Whenever there is a conflict between the Vedas and other texts, the words of the Vedas will consider as ultimate proof.
Moving further, we will answer these cultists, who raise their voices against various deities and the lord himself,
Maya followed Brahma as Saraswati.
Maya turned to the world as Lakshmi to Vishnu.
Maya haunted Rudra on his lap and on his head as Uma.
Becoming oil in seed, sharp edge in the thorn, fragrance in flower Maya is haunting everyone without rest
in their bodies as reflection.
Before the sound of the drum is no more
determine this if you want to know Kaalantaka Bhimeswaralinga
-Dhakkeya Bommanna/1782 [1]
This phrase indirectly proclaims the lord to be a pervert, let us see,
maya can never affect krishna, as maya is under the direction of krishna and it is the external potency of krishna.
अत्रैव मायाधमनावतारे
ह्यस्य प्रपञ्चस्य बहि: स्फुटस्य ।
कृत्स्नस्य चान्तर्जठरे जनन्या
मायात्वमेव प्रकटीकृतं ते ॥ १६ ॥
Śrimad Bhagvatam 10:14:16
My dear Lord, in this incarnation You have proved that You are the supreme controller of Māyā. Although You are now within this universe, the whole universal creation is within Your transcendental body — a fact You demonstrated by exhibiting the universe within Your abdomen before Your mother, Yaśodā.
मायां तु प्रकृतिं विद्यान्मायिनं च महेश्वरम्।
māyāṁ tu prakṛtiṁ vidyānmāyinaṁ ca maheśvaram |
(Swetasvar upnishad 4:10)
Maya is the Prakriti and know the Supreme Lord as the master of Prakruti .
Srila Prabhupada, says in his commentary,
Bhagavad-gītā 2.28
This māyā cannot stand without Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa is not affected by māyā. Because Kṛṣṇa is not affected, absorbed. But the living entities, yayā sammohito jīva [SB 1.7.5], the living entities, they become affected by Now when there is cloud, māyā, the sun is not affected. So we are affected. Kṛṣṇa is not affected.
The pastimes of the lord are always mistaken by many, therefore the lord says,
Bg. 7.25
I am never manifested to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible
Had Lord Kṛṣṇa been some ordinary being then His acceptance of 16,108 wives would definitely have been a case of perversion. In fact, there have been kings who built harems where they’d keep women for sexual enjoyment.
However, Lord Kṛṣṇa is not an ordinary being and hence He cannot be called a pervert!
A pervert is a person who shows unusual sexual behavior, something which is different from normal. But Lord Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with the mundane material bodies. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, where Lord Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes are narrated, it is said (SB 10.1.7):
vīryāṇi tasyākhila-deha-bhājām
antar bahiḥ pūruṣa-kāla-rūpaiḥ
prayacchato mṛtyum utāmṛtaṁ ca
māyā-manuṣyasya vadasva vidvan
“O learned Śukadeva! Please reveal the confidential activities of Kṛṣṇa, appearing in human form by His internal potency, appearing within as Paramātmā and outside all materially embodied living beings as time and giving prema or death to various persons.”
Here one can see that Lord Kṛṣṇa is mentioned as eternal time as well as Paramātmā or all-pervading form of God. In fact He is not human too. His form is human-like or naravat. But He is not the part of species called humans.
Thus where is even question of unusual sexual behavior or perversion?
If anyone raises the question of perversion on the basis of incidents mentioned in scriptures, then he/she should be honest enough to accept the answer from scriptures!
There is another philosophical point that needs to be considered before projecting our internal sexual philosophy on the form of Lord. While we perceive many male & female forms in material world, the scriptures don’t talk about puruṣa (male) & prakrati (female) in anatomical sense. The scriptural idea of puruṣa is different from the English word ‘male’. The scriptures define puruṣa as one who is the controller, who is the īśvara or one who is the enjoyer. This however doesn’t mean that prakrati doesn’t enjoys or feels pleasure. The prakrati also enjoys but its enjoyment is always revolving around or based on puruṣa.
This concept can be explained in details by using the terminology of viṣaya (subject) and āśraya (object). In any loving relationship, one person is the subject of love and other is object of love. This means, the loving exchanges are directed towards one person and that person is called subject; while the other person who celebrates the love is the object. Take for example the case of a child & a mother. The mother takes care of the child i.e. the loving exchange is directed toward the child. Thus the child is the subject. The mother, on the other hand, is the one celebrating the love or giver of love. Thus, she is the object.
This dichotomy of subject-object is there in all relationships, and in a working relationship both subject as well as object derives pleasure from the loving exchanges.
The scriptures say that Lord Kṛṣṇa is Ādi-puruṣa or original subject for all living beings!
Thus, it is not surprising that 16,108 princesses desired to marry Lord Kṛṣṇa when they saw His intoxicating form. After all, He is the original subject in all relationships. Hence, in order to fulfill the desires of these captivated princesses, who were anyways not going to be accepted by the society as they were away from home for so many years, Lord Kṛṣṇa fulfilled their pure devotional desire.
From perspective of scriptures, Lord Kṛṣṇa is the only one who can fulfill the deepest loving tendencies of all living entities. No amount of pain or suffering is greater than a simple glance of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Hence, to say that Lord Kṛṣṇa was a pervert would be akin to saying that Sun is dark.
Credits to the answer "was krishna a pervert?"
Brahma is no god, Vishnu is no god,
Rudra is no god, Ishwara is no god,
Sadashiva is no god,
thousand-headed, thousand-eyed, thousand-legged
Viratapurusha is no god.
Paramapurusha
whose face is the universe
whose eyes are the universe
whose arms are the universe
whose feet are the universe
is no god.
A great sharana who is free
by nature is himself god, Apramaana Koodalasangamadeva - by Basava(nna) - 2453[1
Refutation of this heresy by Jagadguru Madhvacharya - Chaturmukhabrahma, Siva, the other deities and all other Jivas are designated as kṣara, because, their body perishes. Goddess Laksmi is designated as Aksara, because, her body is imperishable. Lord Hari is superior to these two. Lord Hari is Supreme as he possesses independence, power, knowledge, bliss etc., attributes infinitely. Therefore Laksmi, Chatur mukha etc., all are entirely under his control. Lord Hari creates, sustains, destroys, regulates by vidhi and niśedha, gives knowledge, veils by ignorance, puts in bondage and releases the satvika souls. He also enables Goddess Laksmi to manifest, to remain without a perishing body, to function as per his order, to know all directly, and to have eternal bliss. It is Lord Hari who enables all to function. None else can create, sustain etc. Lord Hari is absolutely free from the drawbacks. Thus, states Paramaśruti.
(Vishnutattva Viniranaya - Verse 83)
Lord Visņu who is conveyed by all names is declared to be the Supreme. All names are his names. He is distinct from all others, independent, he is the same all along and Supreme. These śruti statements declare his overlordship by stating that the names of all other gods are primarily his names.
(Vishnutattva Viniranaya - Verse 86)
A question to the lingayats here, a sharana is a person who has surrendered to their god, how can a person who is sharana be great, isn't the person to whom he has surrendered to, greater than him naturally, if he is god then why does he have to surrender himself to someone who is under the influence of illusion(because the shiva they claim to believe is addressed to as a pervert who got attracted to his wife, Uma)? This is something interesting and extremely absurd.
Desire has troubled,
haunted and wounded Brahma, Vishnu
and all other gods, demons and human beings.
Desire has made light and ridiculed
all those who have taken big vows,
restrictions and are considered great.
it can wound and defeat all great men.
What is this desire?
If one related to Shiva enquires
by the order of Shiva it begins to haunt
but cannot touch those whom Shiva loves, Urilingapeddipriya
Visveshwara. -Urilingapeddi/1573 [1]
Bhagavad gita 7.11
"Ekam Brahm, dvitiya naste neh na naste kinchan"
There is only one God, not the second; not at all, not at all, not in the least bit.
The lord has no restrictions, he the is possessor of all opulences. He does not undergo vows to be considered great, he is great unconditionally and without a doubt.
The spider that has wound
from the cords a nest of threads,
from where did it bring the threads?
There is no spinning wheel,
no cotton ball first of all,
and who spun the threads?
Drawing out the thread from its body
spreading it about, swinging in it in love
in the end concealing it within itself, is the spider.
Likewise
our Koodalasangamadeva
can draw it into himself
the world that he has caused. -Guru Basava/160[1]
A set of questions to the lingayats,
If god made this world out of love, then why did he create so much misfortune and the four fold miseries?
What advantage does god get by creating the world?
This is the major belief of the lingayat cultists with regards to the creation, but it leads to a lot of shortcomings, the vaishnavas believe that we an the entire creation emerges from the breath of Maha Vishnu, who is devoid of desires,
Lord Hari does not perform creation etc. of this world to achieve an unfulfilled desire. He performs all these acts purely out of joy, exactly as the dancing of an overjoyed person. He is pümänanda (complete and full of joy) so how can he have any purpose left to achieve? Even the liberated souls attain the fulfillment of all desires, so what then to speak of the Lord — is the soul of all souls in the universe? Narayana samhita, quoted by Madhva
no trident or drum
no skull of Brahma
not decorated with sacred ash
not the one on the ox
not the one with rishis;
for,
the one who has no worldly affairs, has no name-
said Ambigar Chowdayya. -Ambigara Chowdayya/1387
a clay god is no god,
a wooden god is no god,
the god made of five metals is no god,
the god in Sethu Rameshwara, Gokarna, Kashi, Kedara
and such eighty six million holy places
is no god.
If a person knows himself
realizes who he is, he is himself god
Apramaana Koodalasangamadeva -2444
Hare Krishna
ṣri kṛṣnārpaṇamasṭu!
सर्वं एवं मम हृदयं राज्यं कृत्वा मम प्रेमविषयं श्री अप्रमेय श्री श्रीराधाव्रजचन्द्राय च समर्प्यते।
Everything thus is offered to the lord who reigns my heart, and who is the object of my love, Sri Aprameya and Sri Sri Radha Vrajachandra.
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