Nāsṭika Ṣaiva Khanḍana. (PART 2)
Hare Krishna
All Glories To Sri Guru And Sri Gauranga!
Allama Prabhu Vachana
ವೇದಂಗಳೆಂಬವು ಬ್ರಹ್ಮನ ಬೂತಾಟ.
ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರಂಗಳೆಂಬವು ಸರಸ್ವತಿಯ ಗೊಡ್ಡಾಟ.
ಆಗಮಗಳೆಂಬವು ಋಷಿಯ ಮರುಳಾಟ.
ಪುರಾಣಗಳೆಂಬವು ಪೂರ್ವದವರ ಗೊಡ್ಡಾಟ (ಒದ್ದಾಟ?)
ಇಂತು ಇವನು ಅರಿದವರ ನೇತಿಗಳೆದು
ನಿಜದಲ್ಲಿ ನಿಂದಿಪ್ಪಾತನೆ ಗುಹೇಶ್ವರನಲ್ಲಿ ಅಚ್ಚಲಿಂಗೈಕ್ಯನು ! -2/1529 #
Translation:
The Vedas are Brahma’s boasting
The Shastra are Saraswati’s trash
The Agamas are sage’s mad pursuit
The Puranas are the Ancient’s writing
Thus, he is a true Lingaikya
Who, rejecting those who know them,
Can stay in the true Guheshwara
ವೇದವೆಂಬುದು ಓದಿನ ಮಾತು; ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರವೆಂಬುದು ಸಂತೆಯ ಸುದ್ದಿ
ಪುರಾಣವೆಂಬುದು ಪುಂಡರ ಗೋಷ್ಠಿ, ತರ್ಕವೆಂಬುದು ತಗರ ಹೋರಟೆ
ಭಕ್ತಿ ಎಂಬುದು ತೋರಿ ಉಂಬ ಲಾಭ
ಗುಹೇಶ್ವರನೆಂಬುದು ಮೀರಿದ ಘನವು -2/465 #
Translation:
The Veda is a word of reading
The Shastra is bazaar news
The Purana is a discourse of rowdies
Logic is nothing but a fight of goats
And devotion, a gainful dinner
Guheshwara exceeds all in greatness
We can see the amount of disgust that these lingayat mayavadis have for the vedas, now let us establish the fact that the vedas are authoritative before we refute them.
We need to understand what is meant by “authoritative”.
The only texts of the Vedas that are authoritative are those which reveal knowledge unavailable to us by empirical or rational means (Brahma-jñāna) and those in the form of injunctions to act in a beneficial and efficacious way (Dharma).
And both Brahma-jñāna and Dharma have to be rationalised as far as possible and tested to establish their credibility and validity.
The overarching guideline is given in the Rig Veda.
ā no̎ bha̱drāḥ krata̍vo yantu vi̱śvato'da̍bdhāso̱ apa̍ritāsa u̱dbhida̍ḥ |
de̱vā no̱ yathā̱ sada̱mid vṛ̱dhe asa̱nnaprā̎yuvo rakṣi̱tāro̎ di̱ve di̍ve ||
1. MAY good concepts come to us from everywhere, un-beguiling, unhindered, and beneficial, that the God ever may be with us for our benefit, our guardians day by day unceasing in their care. Rig Veda 1:89:1
This is also emphasised in a verse from the Nīti Śāstra.
yukti-yuktam upādeyam vacam bālakād api | anyat tṛṇam iva tyājyām apyuktam padmajanmanā ||
Which means: anything sensible and practically useful and beneficial which is said by a child should be accepted - everything else is to be rejected as straw - even though spoken by Brahmā himself.
there are three sources of Valid Knowledge (pramāna)
Empiricism - tangible evidence which can be demonstrated to be true.
Rationalism - the use of critical thinking and application of rigorous logic
Valid testimony of a trustworthy person. I.e. a recognised expert in the field (āpta-vākya) or Sacred Texts (śabda) i.e. Vedas.
The manu smriti says,
vedaḥ smṛtiḥ sadācāraḥ svasya ca priyamātmanaḥ |
etaccaturvidhaṃ prāhuḥ sākṣād dharmasya lakṣaṇam ||
The Veda (śruti), tradition (smṛti), the conduct of virtuous people and
one's own conscience, these are declared to be the distinct four-fold
sources of Dharma. (Manu 2:12)
What is DHARMA?
codaṇā-lakṣaṇaḥ arthaḥ dharmaḥ
Dharma is that which leads to the highest common good (śreyas) [and is distinguished
by Vedic injunctions].
Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu (1.2.101) Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, quoting the Skanda Purāṇa, states:
pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā
aikāntikī harer bhaktir
utpātāyaiva kalpate
Human society must follow the instructions received from śruti and smṛti, Vedic literature. Practically applied in life this is worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to the pāñcarātrika-vidhi.
The teachings of the vedas are universal,
Mahabharat- Ashwameghik Parva11:82
दान देना, प्राणियों पर दया करना, ब्रह्मचर्य व्रत का पालन, सत्य भाषण, करुणा, धैर्य, क्षमा-शीलता, यही धर्म है, यही महान् योग है। ये सनातन धर्म के सनातन मूल है।
Giving charity, showing mercy to living beings, following celibacy, truthful speech, compassion, patience, forgiveness, this is Dharma, this is the great yoga. This is the eternal root of Sanatan Dharma.
Kannada Muni also defines dharma very logically …
अथातो धर्म व्याख्यास्याम:॥ १
यतोSभ्युदयनि: श्रेयससिद्धि: स धर्म:॥ २
(Vaisheshik Darshana Chapter-1, Aahnik-1 Sutra-1 and 2)
जिससे लौकिक और परलौकिक सुख की सिध्दि होती है, वह धर्म है।
Which leads to the attainment of worldly and supernatural happiness, that is religion.
We also look into pramanas,
Pramana is defined as that which is the means of valid knowledge ( Prama)
In general three Pramanas are accepted by all vedantins.
Prtyaksha ( Perception)
Anumana ( Inference )
Sabda ( Verbal testimony)
In addition some school of thoughts accept more than three Pramanas . e.g. Mimamsakas as well as some accept Upamana (comparison), arthapatti ( Presumption) and anupalabdhi (non-apprehension).
Now, Vedas ( revealed scriptures) are verbal testimony and are considered apaurusheya (not authored by any human, divine revelation).
The Vedas are Verbal Authority. The Mundaka Upanishad (I. i. 1-6) says Brahma imparts to his lineage the higher knowledge (knowledge of Brahman) and lower knowledge (inclusive of the Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas - see verse 5). Higher knowledge refers to actual realization of Brahman and does not imply knowledge gained through our minds. Sankara says in his commentary on verse 5 that the Upanishads are not included in the lower knowledge as the knowledge imparted by the Upanishads is realization of Brahman. The Katha Upanishad (II.iii.15) says: “When all the knots of the heart are destroyed, even while a man is alive, then a mortal becomes immortal. This much alone is the instruction (of all the Upanishads).” Meaning that the sole intent of the Upanishads is to impart the higher knowledge of Brahman.
The Brahma Sutras 1.3.28-30 also addresses the eternity of the Vedas. In his commentary to verse 29, Sankara quotes Rig Veda 10.71.3 – “By means of their past good deeds (the priests) attained the capacity to understand the Vedas; (then) they found them dwelling in the Rishis.” And in verse 28, Sankara’s commentary quotes Manu Smriti 1.21 – “The several names, actions, and conditions of all things He shaped in the beginning from the words of the Vedas.”
Brahma Sutras 1.1.3-4 also addresses that Brahman can be known only through scripture and that the main purport of all Vedanta texts is Brahman. In his commentary on verse 3, Sankara says “…Brahman has no material form etc. and so cannot be cognized by direct perception. Again, in the absence of inseparable characteristics, as smoke is of fire. It cannot be established by inference or analogy (Upamana) [the fourth pramana of the Nyaya school]. Therefore It can be known only through the scriptures…”
Lingayat cultists, are often found committing fallacies using their logic,
acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṃstarkeṇa sādhayet ‘’The state of acintya cannot be ascertained by speculative logic.’’
Vedanta Sutra 1.1.3:
sastra yonitvat
(The speculations of the logicians are unable to teach us about Supreme Personality of Godhead) because He may only be known by the revelation of the Vedic scriptures.
Sruti sastra (quoted by Sri Baladev Vidyabhushan in his commentary on Vedanta Sutra 1.1.3) — purvapara virod-hena ko 'rtho 'trabhimato bhavet ity adyam uhanam tarkah suska tarkam -vivarj ayet "Logic is properly employed to resolve apparent contradictions in the texts of the Vedas. Dry logic, without reference to scriptural revelation, should be abandoned. "
Madhvacharya says, " Nahi tarkena bhagavan asthi it sadhayitum shakyate, yadi shakyate, nasti iti api sadhayitum shakyate, anumanam hi tarko nama"
"Logic or tarka is not the ultimate resolve, infact the tool of logic which can be used to prove the existence of God can as well disprove the existence of God, it is reasoning backed with experience that has to be used "
He further says, "vedam eva sharanam", meaning, surrenderance to the vedas is the only means.
Taittariya Samhita: प्रत्यक्षेणानुमेत्या वा यस्तूपायो न विद्यते । एनं विदन्ति वेदेन तस्माद् वेदस्य वेदता ॥ Which means by That which can not be known either by direct perception or by inference, that Reality can be known only through the Vedas
The vedas are the only authority because of another reason, they were passed down in lineages, which are bonafide, and there is no adulteration and speculations, as in the vachanas of the lingayats, which are authored by fallible men.
Through the various Vedic disciplic chains or Vedic schools.
The Vedic texts were passed from one generation to the other in the oral form through the disciples of the various disciplic chain. The Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam (SB) talks about such disciplic chains as follows:
SB 12.6.45 — Brahmā taught these Vedas to his sons, who were great sages among the brāhmaṇas and experts in the art of Vedic recitation. They in turn took the role of ācāryas and imparted the Vedas to their own sons.
SB 12.6.46 — In this way, throughout the cycles of four ages, generation after generation of disciples — all firmly fixed in their spiritual vows — have received these Vedas by disciplic succession.
SB 12.6.48-49 — O brāhmaṇa, in the present age of Vaivasvata Manu, the leaders of the universe, led by Brahmā and Śiva, requested the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the protector of all the worlds, to save the principles of religion. O most fortunate Śaunaka, the almighty Lord, exhibiting a divine spark of a portion of His plenary portion, then appeared in the womb of Satyavatī as the son of Parāśara. In this form, named Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana Vyāsa, he divided the one Veda into four.
SB 12.6.50 — Śrīla Vyāsadeva separated the mantras of the Ṛg, Atharva, Yajur and Sāma Vedas into four divisions, just as one sorts out a mixed collection of jewels into piles. Thus he composed four distinct Vedic literatures.
SB 12.6.51 — The most powerful and intelligent Vyāsadeva called four of his disciples, O brāhmaṇa, and entrusted to each of them one of these four saṁhitās.
SB 12.6.52-53 — Śrīla Vyāsadeva taught the first saṁhitā, the Ṛg Veda, to Paila and gave this collection the name Bahvṛca. To the sage Vaiśampāyana he spoke the collection of Yajur mantras named Nigada. He taught the Sāma Veda mantras, designated as the Chandoga-saṁhitā, to Jaimini, and he spoke the Atharva Veda to his dear disciple Sumantu.
SB 12.6.54-56 — After dividing his saṁhitā into two parts, the wise Paila spoke it to Indrapramiti and Bāṣkala. Bāṣkala further divided his collection into four parts, O Bhārgava, and instructed them to his disciples Bodhya, Yājñavalkya, Parāśara and Agnimitra. Indrapramiti, the self-controlled sage, taught his saṁhitā to the learned mystic Māṇḍūkeya, whose disciple Devamitra later passed down the divisions of the Ṛg Veda to Saubhari and others.
SB 12.6.57 — The son of Māṇḍūkeya, named Śākalya, divided his own collection into five, entrusting one subdivision each to Vātsya, Mudgala, Śālīya, Gokhalya and Śiśira.
SB 12.6.58 — The sage Jātūkarṇya was also a disciple of Śākalya, and after dividing the saṁhitā he received from Śākalya into three parts, he added a fourth section, a Vedic glossary. He taught one of these parts to each of four disciples — Balāka, the second Paila, Jābāla and Viraja.
SB 12.6.59 — Bāṣkali assembled the Vālakhilya-saṁhitā, a collection from all the branches of the Ṛg Veda. This collection was received by Vālāyani, Bhajya and Kāśāra.
SB 12.6.60 — Thus these various saṁhitās of the Ṛg Veda were maintained through disciplic succession by these saintly brāhmaṇas. Simply by hearing of this distribution of the Vedic hymns, one will be freed from all sins.
SB 12.6.61 — The disciples of Vaiśampāyana became authorities in the Atharva Veda. They were known as the Carakas because they executed strict vows to free their guru from his sin of killing a brāhmaṇa.
SB 12.6.62 — Once Yājñavalkya, one of the disciples of Vaiśampāyana, said: O master, how much benefit will be derived from the feeble endeavors of these weak disciples of yours? I will personally perform some outstanding penance.
SB 12.6.63 — Addressed thus, the spiritual master Vaiśampāyana became angry and said: Go away from here! Enough of you, O disciple who insults brāhmaṇas! Furthermore, you must immediately give back everything I have taught you.
SB 12.6.64-65 — Yājñavalkya, the son of Devarāta, then vomited the mantras of the Yajur Veda and went away from there. The assembled disciples, looking greedily upon these yajur hymns, assumed the form of partridges and picked them all up. These divisions of the Yajur Veda therefore became known as the most beautiful Taittirīya-saṁhitā, the hymns collected by partridges [tittirāḥ].
In this way the chapter 6 of Canto 12 describes how the 4 Vedic samhitas passed from Vyasadeva to his disciples..To read the complete chapter, click here.
The 7th chapter of the same canto describes how the Puranas were transferred through the disciple chain started from Lord Vyasadeva himself:
Lord Krishna, in the Bhagavad-gita explains how the Bhagavad-gita passed down from one gerenation to other from Sun deity to his son Vaivaswata Manu to xxx:
Bg 4.1 — The Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku.
Bg 4.2 — This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.
Bg 4.3 — That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend and can therefore understand the transcendental mystery of this science. SOURCE
A real aspirant of truth should be well versed in the vedas, Mundaka Upanishad: (1.2.1)
तदेतत् सत्यं मन्त्रेषु कर्माणि कवयो यान्यपश्यंस्तानि त्रेतायां बहुधा सन्ततानि । तान्याचरथ नियतं सत्यकामा एष वः पन्थाः सुकृतस्य लोके ॥ १॥
That truth is this, that what observances the seers comprehended from the three Vedas and were practised intensely during theTreta age, you should also practise with devotion. Oh! Seekers of Truth! That is your path which will lead you to the world of those of meritorious deeds. (1).
To establish vedas as the only authority, vedas are apaurusheya, meaning they are not authored by any man, nor are they made out of mental concoctions and speculations,
In the Purusa-sukta [Rig Veda, mandala 10, sukta 90, mantra 9] it is stated,
tasmād yajñāt sarva-huta ṛcaḥ sāmāni jajñjire chandāṁsi jajñjire tasmāt
“From Him, Yajnya, came all sacrificial offerings, hymns of invocation and songs of praise. All the mantras of the Vedas come from the Lord.”
According to Brihadaranyak Upanishad: (2.4.10)
स यथाऽऽर्द्रैधाग्नेरभ्याहितात्पृथग्धूमा विनिश्चरन्त्य् स यथा आर्द्रैधाग्नेस् अभ्याहितस्य अभ्याहिताद् पृथक् धूमास् विनिश्चरन्ति एवं वा अरेऽस्य महतो भूतस्य निःश्वसितमेतद् यदृग्वेदो यजुर्वेदः सामवेदोऽथर्वाङ्गिरस इतिहासः पुराणं विद्या उपनिषदः श्लोकाः सूत्राण्यनुव्याख्यानानि व्याख्यानान्य् एव वै अरे अस्य महतस् भूतस्य निश्वसितम् निःश्वसितम् एतद् यद् ऋग्वेदस् यजुर्वेदस् सामवेदस् अथर्वाङ्गिरसस् इतिहासस् पुराणम् विद्यास् उपनिषदस् श्लोकास् सूत्राणि अनुव्याख्यानानि व्याख्याननि अस्यैवैतानि निःश्वसितानि ॥ १० ॥
"As from a fire kindled with wet fuel various kinds of smoke issue forth, even so, my dear, the Rig—Veda, the Yajur—Veda, the Sama—Veda, the Atharvangirasa, history (itihasa), mythology (purana), the arts (vidya), the Upanishads, verses (slokas), aphorisms (sutras), elucidations (anuvyakhyanas) and explanations (vyakhyanas) are like the breath of this infinite Reality. From this Supreme Self are all these, indeed, breathed forth.
In Bhagavad Gita, the Lord says
“Shruti:smriti: mamaiva AgyA-yastAm ullanghya vartatE AgyAcchEdI mama drOhI mama bhaktOpi na Vaishnava:”
Sruti and Smruti are my commands. He who violates them is a traitor.
Lord shiva too, who these lingayat cultist claim to believe, but not, says
Ribhu Gita,
श्रुतिरियं कर्तृत्ववादं वदत् meaning śruti (vedas) alone are the authority and guidance for all.
Visvanatha-Nyaya-Pancanana states:
...The invocation there is made in apprehension of an obstacle; for such is the practice among the cultured. Nor can it be urged that if an invocation is fruitless, the Vedas inculcating it cease to be authoritative; for the Vedas only say that if there be an obstacle, it will be removed (in that way). Hence although as expiatory ceremony that is performed for an act wrongly apprehended is futile, yet it does not nullify the authoritativeness of the Vedas that teach it...
Adi Shankaracharya also in this section of Brahma Sutra bhasya states:
अतएव च नित्यत्वम् || 1|3|29||
AtaEva cha NityaTvam
And from this very reason there follows the eternity of the Veda.
As the eternity of the Veda is founded on the absence of the remembrance of an agent only, a doubt with regard to it had been raised owing to the doctrine that the gods and other individuals have sprung from it. That doubt has been refuted in the preceding Sûtra.--The present Sûtra now confirms the, already established, eternity of the Veda. The eternity of the word of the Veda has to be assumed for this very reason, that the world with its definite (eternal) species, such as gods and so on, originates from it.--A mantra also ('By means of the sacrifice they followed the trace of speech; they found it dwelling in the rishis,' Rig-veda Samh. X, 71, 3) shows that the speech found (by the rishis) was permanent. --On this point Vedavyâsa also speaks as follows: 'Formerly the great rishis, being allowed to do so by Svayambhû, obtained, through their penance, the Vedas together with the itihâsas, which had been hidden at the end of the yuga.'
Adi Shankara in the previous Sutra gives very long reasoning about how mentioning of things like gods, species etc.. by Vedas which have origin and death also doesn't prove Vedas are uneternal:
The Veda was called अपौरुषेय, apauruṣeya- not because no one remembers who their authors are, but because the author was, is and will be the Almighty God.
Here, the usage of the word "author" requires clarification.
The ancient seers, unlike later day commentators, knew their limitations and the power of Almighty.
The seers heard the revelations/mantras during their deep meditations and they transmitted their knowledge to the mankind.
Though those mantras were known to subsequent generations under the name of the seer, who transmitted that knowledge, and had been ascribed to that seer the authorship, yet we have to remember that the inspiration/source behind those revelations/matras is the Almighty God only.
They stated the Veda as apauruṣeya, because the contents in the Veda are divine and eternal. Out of humbleness, knowing fully well the divinity of eternal laws -sanAtana dharma, they called those laws as apauruṣeya.
Rig Veda III.3.1.
वैश्वानराय पर्थुपाजसे विपो रत्ना विधन्त धरुणेषु गातवे | अग्निर्हि देवानम्र्तो दुवस्यत्यथा धर्माणि सनता न दूदुषत ||
To him who shines afar, Vaiśvānara, shall bards give precious things that he may go on certain paths: For Agni the Immortal serves the Deities, and therefore never breaks their everlasting laws.
Any Natural law is divine, whether it was/is/will be observed by a human of Eastern or Western hemisphere of our Earth.
Let us consider the law of Gravitation.
This law was in existence even before Newton, is in existence now, and will be there after us, because it is a Natural Law, thus it is Divine.
Newton, though a great person, yet a human, claimed name for his discovery of that Law, but did not ascribe to the Almighty god.
Ancient seers, who discovered or heard the Divine laws and transmitted them as Veda, did not claim the authorship because they were elevated souls.
In Vaisheshika-sutra 1.1.3 and 10:2:9, Vedas are referred as word of God.
तद्वचनादाम्नायस्य प्रामाण्यम् ॥
The authoritativeness of the Veda (arises from its) being the Word of God [or being an exposition of dharma].
Vedas are a work of intelligence.
बुद्धिपूर्वा वाक्यकृतिर्वेदे ॥ ६.१.१ ॥
satyam aham gabhīraḥ kāvyena satyaṃ jātenāsmi jātavedaḥ |
na me dāso nāryo mahitvā vratam mīmāya yad ahaṃ dhariṣye ||
“O Man, I, being of the nature of truth and being unfathomable, have revealed the true
Vedic knowledge; so I am he who gave birth to the Veda. I cannot be partial either to
a Dāsa (sudra) or an Arya; I save all those who behave like myself (i.e., impartially)
and follow my truthful commands”. (Atharva Veda 5.11.3)
Now the lingayats can be found making absurd comments such as the vedas as limited only to the bramhins, but let us debunk them.
In the Veda the composition of sentence has been preceded by understanding.
yathemām vācam kalyāṇīṃ āvadāni janebhyaḥ |
brahma rājanyābhyāṃ śūdrayā cāryāya ca svāya cāraṇāya ca ||
"Just as I have revealed this beneficial [Vedic] truth to all people, Brahmins,
Kshatriyas, Sudras, Vaishyas (aryas), our own kin (svaya) and to the foreigners
(aranāya) also". Sukla Yajur Veda 26:2
The bramha sutras start with the line "athato bramha jijnasa" which means let us now enquire about god, The one who is interested to know or enquire about bramhan or god, is a bramhana, so therefore, regardless if their birth in any caste, one may read the vedas, thus becoming a bramhana.
Moving further.......
ವೇದದಿಂದ ವೆಗ್ಗಳವಿಲ್ಲವೆಂಬಿರಿ, ವೇದ ಶಿವನ ಕಂಡುದಿಲ್ಲ.
ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರದಿಂದ ವೆಗ್ಗಳವಿಲ್ಲವೆಂಬಿರಿ, ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರ ಶಿವನ ಕಂಡುದಿಲ್ಲ.
ವೇದವೆಂಬುದು ವಿಪ್ರರ ಬೋಧೆ.
ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರವೆಂಬುದು ಸಂತೆಯ ಗೋಷ್ಠಿ.
ಅನುಭಾವದಿಂದ ತನ್ನೊಳಗಣ ತನುವ,
ತಾನರಿತಂಥ ಭಕ್ತರಿಂದ ವೆಗ್ಗಳವಿಲ್ಲವೆಂದ, ಕಲಿದೇವರದೇವಯ್ಯ. -8/731 #
Translation:
You say there is nothing greater than the Veda
But the Veda has not seen Shiva
You say there is nothing greater than the Shastra
But the shastra has not seen Shiva
The Veda is nothing but the preaching of a priest
The Shastra is but the discourse in a market
“There is none greater than the Bhaktas, who have known themselves through
Mystic experience”, says Kalidevaradeva
The vedas, are shabda bramhana, or the literal incarnation of god,
ಪುರಾಣ ಪುಂಡರ ಗೋಷ್ಠಿ, ಆಗಮ ಅನೃತದ ನುಡಿ.
ತರ್ಕ ವ್ಯಾಕರಣ ಕವಿತ್ವ ಪ್ರೌಡಿ
ಇಂತಿವರಂಗದ ಮೇಲೆ ಲಿಂಗವಿಲ್ಲದ ಭಾಷೆ.
ಇದು ಕಾರಣ, ತನ್ನೊಳಗನರಿದ
ಅನುಭಾವಿಯಿಂದ ಘನವಿಲ್ಲೆಂದ, ಕಲಿದೇವ. -8/733 #
Translation:
The Vedas are a dead weight on the Brahmin’s mind
The Shastras are bandied about by the multitude
The puranas are quoted by knaves and ruffians
The Agamas are a bundle of lies
Logic and grammar are the poet’s boast
They are all void of meaning
As they do not symbolize the language of Linga
There is no good greater than the mystic flash
This showed the inner self for what it is
This is be the teaching of Kalidevaradeva
Nageya Maaritande
ವೇದ ಯೋನಿಯ ಹಂಗು.
ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರ ಯೋನಿಯ ಹಂಗು.
ಪುರಾಣ ಯೋನಿಯ ಹಂಗು.
ಆಗಮ ಯೋನಿಯ ಹಂಗು.
ನಾದದಿಂದ ಉದಿಸಿದವು ಶ್ರೋತ್ರದ ಹಂಗು.
ಹೇಳುವುದು ವೆಜ್ಜ, ಕೇಳುವುದು ವೆಜ್ಜ,
ತಾ ಹಿಂದೆ ಬಂದುದು ವೆಜ್ಜ, ಈಗ ನಿಂದು ಮಾಡುವುದು ವೆಜ್ಜ.
ಇಂತೀ ವೆಜ್ಜದಜ್ಜೆಯ ಗುದ್ದಿನಲ್ಲಿ ಬಿದ್ದವರಿಗೆ ನಿರ್ಧರವಿಲ್ಲ
ಆತುರವೈರಿ ಮಾರೇಶ್ವರಾ. -7/1252 #
Translation:
The Veda is obliged to the female sex
The Shastra is obliged to the female sex
The Purana is obliged to the female sex
The Agama is obliged to the female sex
Those born of sound are obliged to the ear
They walk over of the female sex
And hear ever of the female sex
Earlier they came into existence through sex
What they are doing now is through sex
To those who have fallen into the hole of sex
There is no salvation
O Aturavairi Maareshwara!
To refute this nonsense in short, let's quote the verse from bhagavad gita,
māḿ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
ye ’pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
te ’pi yānti parāḿ gatim
Translation of Bhagavad Gita 9.32
O son of Pritha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth(chandalas, meaning dog eaters), women, vaishyas [merchants] and shudras [workers]—can attain the supreme destination.
Ambigara Chowdayya
ವೇದಂಗಳೆಲ್ಲ ಬ್ರಹ್ಮನೆಂಜಲು,
ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರಂಗಳೆಲ್ಲ ಸರಸ್ವತಿಯೆಂಜಲು,
ಆಗಮಂಗಳೆಲ್ಲ ರುದ್ರನೆಂಜಲು,
ಪುರಾಣಂಗಳೆಲ್ಲ ವಿಷ್ಣುವಿನೆಂಜಲು,
ನಾದಬಿಂದುಕಳೆಗಳೆಂಬವು ಅಕ್ಷರತ್ರಯದೆಂಜಲು,
ಅಕ್ಷರತ್ರಯಂಗಳು ಪ್ರಕೃತಿಯ ಎಂಜಲು.
ಇಂತಿವೆಲ್ಲವ ಹೇಳುವರು ಕೇಳುವರು
ಪುಣ್ಯಪಾಪಂಗಳೆಂಜಲೆಂದಾತನಂಬಿಗರ ಚೌಡಯ್ಯ. -6/251 #
Translation:
All the Vedas are the leftover of Brahma
All the Shastras are the leftover of Saraswati
All the Agamas are the leftover of Rudra
All the Puranas are the leftover of Three Letters
Three-Letters are the leftover of Nature
All those who talk of, and listen to, these things
Are the leftover of merit and sin?
Said Ambigara Chowdayya
This has been refuted above, but what does nature refer to in the vedic litetature, the nature, or prakriti is the external potency of the krishna. The author confuses himself in this context and ends up getting messed up.
Kola Shaantayya
ಬ್ರಹ್ಮನ ಬಾಯ ಓಗರವನುಂಡು,
ವಿಷ್ಣುವಿನ ಕೈಯ ಸೀರೆಯ ಹೊದ್ದು,
ರುದ್ರನ ಮನೆಯಲ್ಲಿ ತಿರುಗಾಡುತ್ತಿಪ್ಪ ಭದ್ರಾಂಗಿಗಳು ಕೇಳಿರೋ.
ಬ್ರಹ್ಮನ ಬಾಯ ಮುಚ್ಚಿ,
ವಿಷ್ಣುವಿನ ಕೈಯ ಮುರಿದು,
ರುದ್ರನ ಮನೆಯ ಸುಟ್ಟು ಬುದ್ಧಿವಂತರಾಗಿ.
ಬುದ್ಧಿವಂತರಾದವರ ಅರಿದವರನರಿ.
ಪುಣ್ಯಾರಣ್ಯದಹನ ಭೀಮೇಶ್ವರಲಿಂಗ ನಿರಂಗಸಂಗ. -7/167 #
Translation:
Eating the left over of Brahma,
Wearing the cloth of Vishnu’s hand,
Loitering in the houses of Rudra,
Listen, you the strong-bodied!
Become wise
By stopping brahma’s mouth,
By breaking Visnu’s hands,
By burning to ashes Rudra’s house
Know the wise
Know the knowing
O Punyaranyandahana Bheemeshwara linga Nirangasanga!
We can see the hari dwesha and the vaishnava aparadha towards shiva and bramha in this poem, how could someone break the lord's hand, the lord is completely spiritual and not merely a stone, called ista linga in the cult, as they do not provide suitable evidences to prove the existence of their god. And their god is simply a favourite stone, by literal translation. Madhvacharya clearly states that the ones' who commit hari dwesha, are condemned to nitya naraka, or eternal damnation. Not only the lord, even we jivatmas, or ordinary souls are immortal and spiritual, what to speak of the lord?
Akkamahadevi
ವೇದಶಾಸ್ತ್ರ ಆಗಮ ಪುರಾಣಂಗಳೆಲ್ಲವು
ಕೊಟ್ಟಣವ ಕುಟ್ಟಿದ ನುಚ್ಚು ತೌಡು ಕಾಣಿ ಭೋ!
ಅವ ಕುಟ್ಟಲೇಕೆ ಕುಸುಕಲೇಕೆ?
ಅತ್ತಲಿತ್ತ ಹರಿವ ಮನದ ಶಿರವನರಿದಡೆ
ಬಚ್ಚ ಬರಿಯ ಬಯಲು ಚೆನ್ನಮಲ್ಲಿಕಾರ್ಜುನ -5/305 #
Translation:
ಕೊಟ್ಟಣ = ಭತ್ತ , ಕುಸುಕು = ಹಗುರಾಗಿ ತಳಿಸು, ಮೆಲ್ಲಗೆ ಕುಟ್ಟು
Veda, Shastra, Agama and Purana
All are the broken rice and chaff of pounded paddy
Why pound them?
Why thrash them?
If the head of the mercuric mind is chopped off
It is all sheer voids
O Chennamallikarjuna!
This woman exposes her void mind, we need to first have minds in order to understand the shastras, krishna says, “For one who has conquered the mind, the Supersoul is already reached, for he has attained tranquility. To such a man happiness and distress, heat and cold, honor and dishonor are all the same.” (Bg. 6.7) . Mercuric mind or mind chopped makes no difference, we need to have proper mind, and surrenderance and absolute obedience to god, to understand the vedas, otherwise surely everything is sheer void, as his own existence.
ಓದಿ ಓದಿ ವೇದ ವಾದಕ್ಕಿಕ್ಕಿತ್ತು.
ಕೇಳಿ ಕೇಳಿ ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರ ಸಂದೇಹಕ್ಕಿಕ್ಕಿತ್ತು.
ಅರಿದೆಹೆ ಅರಿದೆಹೆನೆಂದು ಆಗಮ ಅರೆಯಾಗಿ ಹೋಯಿತ್ತು.
ಪೂರೈಸಿಹೆ ಪೂರೈಸಿಹೆನೆಂದು
ಪುರಾಣ ಪೂರ್ವದ ಬಟ್ಟೆಗೆ ಹೋಯಿತ್ತು.
ನಾನೆತ್ತ ತಾನೆತ್ತ ? ಬೊಮ್ಮ ಬಟ್ಟಬಯಲು
ಚೆನ್ನಮಲ್ಲಿಕಾರ್ಜುನಾ. -5/134 #
Translation:
The more the Veda was read
The more debatable it became
The more the Shastra was heard
The more doubtful it became
The Agama boasted of its knowledge
But it remained short of knowledge
The purana proclaimed to have completed knowledge
But it trod the old path
Where are we
When our ways are different?
Brahma is all void,
O Chennamallikarjuna!
The vedas must be read according to certain rules and following certain procedures, in a different context referring to nyaya sudha book, sriman Vyasa Thirtha tells us how to understand the vedas, so as to understand what they convey,
"The ocean of Veda is churned , with the Mandara parvata known as Vyāsasūtra (Brahmasūtra), wrapped around with the rope known as bhashya of Sri Sarvajnācharya (Sriman Madhvacharya), that's how the Amruta know as Sriman Nyayasudhā emerged !"
When she says, the veda is debatable and the agamas boast about their knowledge, she is nullifying herself, as the doctrine of the pancharatras are in line with the vedas,
shankaracharya says,
Shankara says that half of Pancharatra doctrine is agreeable to Vedanta, before starting the discussion of Pancharatra doctrine(2.2.42):
“”We have, in what precedes, refuted the opinion of those who think that the Lord is not the material cause but only the ruler, the operative cause of the world. We are now going to refute the doctrine of those according to whom he is the material as well as the operative cause.--But, it may be objected, in the previous portions of the present work a Lord of exactly the same nature, i.e. a Lord who is the material, as well as the operative, cause of the world, has been ascertained on the basis of Scripture, and it is a recognised principle that Smriti, in so far as it agrees with Scripture, is authoritative; why then should we aim at controverting the doctrine stated?
ಶಾಸ್ತ್ರವೆಂಬುದು ಮನ್ಮಥಶಸ್ತ್ರವಯ್ಯಾ.
ವೇದಾಂತವೆಂಬುದು ಮೂಲ ಮನೋವ್ಯಾಧಿಯಯ್ಯಾ.
ಪುರಾಣವೆಂಬುದು ಮೃತವಾದವರ ಗಿರಾಣವಯ್ಯಾ.
ತರ್ಕವೆಂಬುದು ಮರ್ಕಟಾಟವಯ್ಯಾ.
ಆಗಮವೆಂಬುದು ಯೋಗದ ಘೋರವಯ್ಯಾ.
ಇತಿಹಾಸವೆಂಬುದು ರಾಜರ ಕಥಾಭಾಗವಯ್ಯಾ.
ಸ್ಮೃತಿಯೆಂಬುದು ಪಾಪಪುಣ್ಯವಿಚಾರವಯ್ಯಾ.
ಆದ್ಯರ ವಚನವೆಂಬುದು ಬಹುವೇದ್ಯವಯ್ಯಾ,
ನಮ್ಮ ಕಪಿಲಸಿದ್ಧಮಲ್ಲಿಕಾರ್ಜುನನ ತಿಳಿಯಕ್ಕೆ. -4/1542 #
Translation:
The Shastra is love’s weapon;
Vedanta is the root-disease of mind;
Purana is the story of the dead;
Logic is but a monkey’s game;
The Agama is but yoga’s sin;
History is the saga of kings;
Smriti is obsessed with sin and merit,
The ancients Vachanas are a great store of knowledge,
To understand
Our Kapila Siddha Mallikarjuna!
Vedanta is the medicine for the disease started by Basava and preached by his followers like siddarameshvara, who make absurd claims like above, is there an efficient way like ayurveda, in the lingayat cult, to cure diseases, is there surgery or any other medicine or treatment as good as the one in vedic culture in the lingayat cult? Is there any good practice better than yoga in the lingayat cult? which is accepted worldwide, and cures innumerable diseases, this is enough to prove them unscientific, and primitive. They try to imitate the westerners, and defame the system of vedanta and yoga philosophy, which even the west is trying to implement, and of the so called equality they try to establish.
Difference is real, no one equal by birth.
(Vishnutattva Niranay -Verse 57)
Translation - The entire Veda conveys the difference of the God from all i.e., Jivas and Jada. This difference is nothing but the supremacy, independence, omniscience etc., attributes of the God. The distinction from others is the very nature of the God. The distinction is the very nature of an entity. The term 'Sva' in the word Svarupa indicates its distinction from all others. The Sruti Neti Neti' etc., conveys the distinction of God from all others. All other Srutis also convey the same.
This will be continued in the next post, where we will be posting the refutations against their vachanas.
THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED IN JULY 2022. RE-POSTED ON AUGUST 2023
Hare Krishna
ṣri kṛṣnārpaṇamasṭu!
सर्वं एवं मम हृदयं राज्यं कृत्वा मम प्रेमविषयं श्री अप्रमेय श्री श्रीराधाव्रजचन्द्राय च समर्प्यते।
Everything thus is offered to the lord who reigns my heart, and who is the object of my love, Sri Aprameya and Sri Sri Radha Vrajachandra.
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